tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post4584807688931951514..comments2024-03-28T16:32:41.081+00:00Comments on Battlefields and Warriors: Comparing lower complexity tactical systemsNormhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05031444717952755557noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-89321389219321654352023-02-26T06:21:49.474+00:002023-02-26T06:21:49.474+00:00Hi John, ASLSK is a good place to start, but one m...Hi John, ASLSK is a good place to start, but one must understand from the outset that the kits intention is to guide you to full or fuller ASL - therefore, kit 1 is infantry only and that might be enough as a fix for some gamers, but kits 2 and 3 add guns and armour and if you want that, then the Starter Kit route does increase in complexity (still tame compared to its big brother).<br /><br />Some other systems like OST, Band of Brothers and Lock ‘n Load use roughly the same base mechanics for their infantry and armour, making a fuller order-of-battle type game easier to assimilated.<br /><br />It is a personal decision, i just think that at the outset it is worth deciding where you think you will be wanting to take your level of play. Normhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05031444717952755557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-16561205892214573312023-02-25T21:56:00.404+00:002023-02-25T21:56:00.404+00:00Likewise, I'd be interested in a redo with OST...Likewise, I'd be interested in a redo with OST and any others. Having played squad leader many years ago in all of its forms and now with more time I am interested in which system to consider. I'm tempted to start with ASK starter kit #1 now that it is available again.Johnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-25394581933197397742023-02-06T08:31:49.697+00:002023-02-06T08:31:49.697+00:00consider this a vote for "Renewed Interest&qu...consider this a vote for "Renewed Interest"...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-45979332676092408232023-02-05T06:04:19.805+00:002023-02-05T06:04:19.805+00:00Hi Jay, thanks, even all these years later, it get...Hi Jay, thanks, even all these years later, it gets repeat visits, perhaps it is due for an update, I am thinking in particular of Old School Tactical, which would be new to the list and of Course Worthington games are just re-publishing their Band of Brothers series and ASL always has a large presence, so the post might get some renewed interest.Normhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05031444717952755557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-53940083599464233202023-02-04T19:27:24.103+00:002023-02-04T19:27:24.103+00:00Hi Norm,
I just wanted to say that this is a real...Hi Norm,<br /><br />I just wanted to say that this is a really great analysis. I still refer to it, as you can tell!<br /><br />Cheers<br /><br />JayOld Trousershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866101372406631079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-10643185133270403362017-09-13T16:46:08.638+00:002017-09-13T16:46:08.638+00:00Hi Jonathan, thanks for the comment. The post has ...Hi Jonathan, thanks for the comment. The post has been very popular and seems to have been in the top 6 list for the last 3 years. In truth, there should probably be a second post, covering the next range of games in the same format .... though it needs a certain level of stamina and attention to get one of these posts done :-)<br /><br />I like the ASL starter kits, though, they are designed to take you on a journey to the full rules and while you don't need to actually jump to the full rules, by the time you have all the modules, each would have progressively taken you to the point of that design cross over. So, while many will like ASK starter kit 1, they may enjoy starter kit (say) 3 less, even though they are still in the starter kit world.<br /><br />I am presently play GMT's Panzer, waiting for Lock 'n loads' Nations at War (just back in print) to be re-distributed, along with their actual Lock 'n Load tactical series. There really is just so much tactical goodness about.Normhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05031444717952755557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-8078285221447845132017-09-13T13:23:16.468+00:002017-09-13T13:23:16.468+00:00Norm, with a growing interest in returning to ASL ...Norm, with a growing interest in returning to ASL or something similar, I have read and re-read your excellent comparative work. I must say that this is simply a top-level study in comparing and contrasting the systems examined.<br /><br />Unfortunately, your comparison still leaves me wonder upon which path to tread. The SL series was a dear old friend of mine many, many years ago but I never advanced to ASL. ASLSK seems a good way to reintroduce myself to that system. The other systems sound interesting too and I am most interesting in giving TaM a try with my 15mm figures. For that, I need a larger hex, lots of terrain, and OBs for my early war collections. I have some work to do!<br /><br />Thanks again for an informative compare and contrast study.<br />Very well done! Jonathan Freitaghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07862373894196924886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-65960329076954199292016-09-13T04:49:54.459+00:002016-09-13T04:49:54.459+00:00Hi Mac, thanks, I am glad that you enjoyed the art...Hi Mac, thanks, I am glad that you enjoyed the article, I have not done Elst yet, but in my 'cycle' of playing tactical games, I am back around to looking at ASL, so I hope to have a go at Elst. We moved home recently into something that has needed substantial renovation and unfortunately that has thrown a lot of my gaming activity out.Normhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05031444717952755557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-37701504855376831972016-09-10T18:48:34.642+00:002016-09-10T18:48:34.642+00:00Hi Norm,
I am wondering whether you realized that...Hi Norm,<br /><br />I am wondering whether you realized that idea with Elst being played with Retro and ASLSK rules.<br /><br />Would love to read about that...<br /><br />Kudos and many thanks for your outstanding article "comparing-lower-complexity-tactical".<br /><br />Cheers<br />MacMachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09144294666991245914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-44755785057783096282016-07-08T13:30:51.804+00:002016-07-08T13:30:51.804+00:00Thanks, in some ways, I wish I had added a Lock &#... Thanks, in some ways, I wish I had added a Lock 'n Load comparison, but perhaps the post is long enough as it is.<br /><br />I agree about the SL artwork, though interestingly SL / ASL have been locked into that design, while other companies have been able to take advantage of bigger counters and bigger, coloured images.<br /><br />In many respects, the same is true of the maps / boards, but I have a preference towards to old SL board artwork - maybe that is just a nostalgia thing, but some new systems seem to struggle with getting the right look for hills, while the old abstract method of SL seems to still do a pretty good job.Normhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05031444717952755557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-20746102303758295012016-07-08T10:34:55.328+00:002016-07-08T10:34:55.328+00:00Interesting to get this depth of comparison. I was...Interesting to get this depth of comparison. I was also interested to see how much the original Squad Leader design of counters has influenced the later games here as prior to the original SL lots of games just had tactical symbols while now artwork is common on unit counters at this level. Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11587938750309743961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-1339840340259247162016-07-06T06:16:14.955+00:002016-07-06T06:16:14.955+00:00Great and informative post, Norm. I'll be comi...Great and informative post, Norm. I'll be coming back to this. Cheers,<br />AaronPrufrockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17659918463589870423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-65404335996846295462015-05-02T11:35:07.309+00:002015-05-02T11:35:07.309+00:00Hi, thanks for joining the blog. Interesting point...Hi, thanks for joining the blog. Interesting point. I'm sure there must be plenty of occasions that 'thinking' from one game can transfer to another. especially on rules such as say on line of sight rules which can be fundamentally similar across several formats. <br /><br />I generally tend to have a 'current favourite' that I am playing a lot of, rather than dipping into a different system every week, so that might help keep some clean breaks between the rules for me.<br /><br />Whether it is just a nostalgic thing I don't know, but nothing since has really given me the same buzz that I got from the countless hours spent exploring Basic Squad leader (4th edition) all those years ago. If they would just simply re-print that, add in the Brits, add a few more vehicles, a few extra scenarios and do some good graphics - it would be the package of packages .... at least for this punter :-)Normhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05031444717952755557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-56017555951583978472015-05-02T09:12:56.378+00:002015-05-02T09:12:56.378+00:00Very interesting run through of those 5 tactical ...Very interesting run through of those 5 tactical systems.<br />Don't you find that having experience in many tactical games that you end up with what I call rule creep, bits of other games rule leak in into the current not intentionally, & never effects play.crasher303https://www.blogger.com/profile/10867374516679471440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-78813047307165179802015-01-29T08:13:36.224+00:002015-01-29T08:13:36.224+00:00Thanks for a well reasoned and unbiased report. Gr...Thanks for a well reasoned and unbiased report. Great reading and makes me want to play a few games.Reghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05273375856303926337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-17112207290375003052014-12-31T08:29:14.455+00:002014-12-31T08:29:14.455+00:00Thank you all, for the positive comments here and ...Thank you all, for the positive comments here and in other forum folders that I visit. I am pleased that so many people have enjoyed the article. I wasn't sure how many would see it through to the end :-) <br /><br />Best wishes to all for the New Year.<br />Normhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05031444717952755557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-55585043226334006732014-12-31T03:38:48.095+00:002014-12-31T03:38:48.095+00:00Great read; thanks so much for taking the time to ...Great read; thanks so much for taking the time to do this. This report was a great trip down memory lane as well as an introduction to new things. I played SL/ASL back in the 1980s, mostly by myself. I loved it at first but eventually grew weary of all the updates and the heavy rules. I probably would've loved the Starter Kits back then. <br /><br />I was away from gaming for many years, but I eventually got back into CoH (my go-to system) and then tried BoB (didn't connect with it). I think your analysis of both games is fair and spot on. I especially enjoyed the introduction to Retro you provided as I was not aware of that system, and the Hesitation mechanism does sound nicely streamlined. I think we're all spoiled with the luxury of arguing over which system is best as there weren't these many choices back in the 70s/80s when a lot of us started. So yeah, horses for courses indeed. <br /><br />I excitedly await the CoH solitaire system for a true AI to game against instead of "dealing with such things", and I wonder if it will convince people to adopt that system at least as their tactical solitaire game of choice.<br /><br />But really just wanted to thank you for the post and let you know I'll be looking forward to any more. Keep 'em coming.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-38338036475951700932014-12-29T23:18:21.061+00:002014-12-29T23:18:21.061+00:00Firstly Norm, thanks for a post that are exactly t...Firstly Norm, thanks for a post that are exactly the type I love to read - detailed comparisons of rules replaying similar scenarios. It has taken to now for me to get to read it but well worth it. <br /><br />I have a lot of ASL kit I got cheap (I played SL but only ASL a few times) and bought Retro a few years to give it go but the friend that is interested (ex-ASL player) and I just cannot seem to tee up a time. <br /><br />One Hour Wargames I find fascinating. Shaun Travershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05691522858410783769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-37141804996860082122014-12-28T17:07:14.169+00:002014-12-28T17:07:14.169+00:00Great post. I have played ASLsince it's incep...Great post. I have played ASLsince it's inception and your thoughts on the Starter system are very interesting and bring out the system well. I have played the Starter Sets scenarios with the full rules as there are some good ones in there. Solo of course.<br /><br />I have had the first two Convict of Heroes games for what seems ages and tried them several times but never got into them, but your post has re-ignited my interest. I have the March 2010 version of the rules but have asked Academy for latest ones.<br /><br />Thanks again<br /><br />CraigAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18147153815826496575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-50062202733315481082014-12-26T13:55:41.666+00:002014-12-26T13:55:41.666+00:00Hi Norm,
Great post and very enjoyable to read on...Hi Norm,<br /><br />Great post and very enjoyable to read on Xmas day. I've just seen a video preview of the CoH solitaire rules which look great and may tempt me in that direction. Your analysis of the base game is very helpful.<br /><br />Hope you enjoy the 1HW rules, they are really good at stimulating further thinking!.<br /><br />Cheers<br /><br />JayOld Trousershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866101372406631079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-17048296938591654442014-12-26T12:07:51.446+00:002014-12-26T12:07:51.446+00:00I actually love Valor and Victory. The only thing...I actually love Valor and Victory. The only things holding it back are that it is presently going through a reworking, nothing major but it will change counters and it is hard to buy in until that is complete. Given this is a labor of love for the designer, it will take awhile. Second, there are limited scenarios and theaters. Sure you can design your own, but that really is not my bag. I wish a publisher would pick this up because it really is an awesome game and great design.Atsgamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05280195473882445689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-45099890681215682362014-12-26T06:54:36.575+00:002014-12-26T06:54:36.575+00:00Thanks all. This particular post did take a lot of...Thanks all. This particular post did take a lot of effort, but mainly because I had it all complete, ready for Christmas morning as promised, when I decided it was all a bit of a ramble without any structure. So I took it to bits and re-did it on the 23rd !, so through to Christmas Eve was quite fraught to get it finally done.<br /><br />Between the games I covered and those I left out, I agree, we have much to be grateful for in what amounts to a small niche hobby. <br /><br />Over on Consimworld, someone just reminded be that Barry Doyles' Valor of Victory would have been a good candidate to cover. It would have been nice to get a DTP game in there - though I am not sure whether Blogger limits the length of a post. I kept it mostly 'graphic free' just in case uploads had a limit.Normhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05031444717952755557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-83381138159806528902014-12-26T03:09:09.060+00:002014-12-26T03:09:09.060+00:00Excellent article....a complete delight for my Chr...Excellent article....a complete delight for my Christmas. Thanks, motivated to read much more of your stuff....I very much like the way you did this--as others said, must have taken a lot of time, thanks for doing this!cjsiamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12456490812967631690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-5474912359475784432014-12-26T01:41:56.016+00:002014-12-26T01:41:56.016+00:00I can't imagine how long that took you! I jus...I can't imagine how long that took you! I just thoroughly enjoyed it. There are many really good systems available today, each with its own strength. Atsgamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05280195473882445689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-45955747419615571212014-12-25T18:32:29.563+00:002014-12-25T18:32:29.563+00:00Hi Jim, there's a fair bit of work that goes i...Hi Jim, there's a fair bit of work that goes into these things, so it will be a while before I do something like this again, but gun / armour systems do interest me enough to do that.Normhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05031444717952755557noreply@blogger.com