tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post6640559405453732751..comments2024-03-18T19:14:27.195+00:00Comments on Battlefields and Warriors: 5th Edition Retro - Simplified tactical WWII gamingNormhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05031444717952755557noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-1986205196367275222021-09-14T06:10:08.395+00:002021-09-14T06:10:08.395+00:00Hi Edwin, thanks for visiting. I think Retro is a ...Hi Edwin, thanks for visiting. I think Retro is a wonderfully crafted system and I tend not to be a tinkerer of systems as small changes can impact other parts of the rules and I think this is particularly true of these rules as everything seems to matter, so I didn't alter the CRT.<br /><br />I actually sold off all my ASL(SK) stuff at the start of the year - though I suppose amusingly, was looking yesterday at the prospect of buying back in to some modules.<br /><br />If you have a go at Retro with an ASL scenario and don't like it, I would recommend using one of the scenarios from the Retro booklet before making a final decision, as they work quite well.<br /><br />I have a high respect of the Retro design and when first envisaged, it was pre starter kit and when ASL pretty much dominated the scene and getting something with reduced complexity was very important. These days, there are more lower complexity systems about, though Retro remains a relevant product for those who already have an unused ASL(SK) on their shelves, if it gets its onto the table then it is worth it and I know some have used it to get the bigger historical modules to the table, so they play in a more reasonable time.<br /><br />Hope it works out for you.Normhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05031444717952755557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-25551928806582042352021-09-13T15:04:50.770+00:002021-09-13T15:04:50.770+00:00Both this article and the comparison article promp...Both this article and the comparison article prompted me to get Retro (5th ed.). My hope is to be able to use it help bring some reluctant players to squad level tactical war gaming, and also get more use of my ASL(SK) kit. <br /><br />Failing that I’m also acquiring CoH and BoB (and even games like Memoir ‘44 and Undaunted: Normandy) in hope of being able cover the “sweet spots” to lure in potential opponents.<br /><br />I do have a question wrt Retro’s CRT: Do you believe it is worthwhile to alter in some way the CRT to overcome what you consider to be its short-comings? perhaps with DR modifiers?<br /><br />I haven’t actually received the Retro book yet, so I am unsure about what to expect. Your reporting of the CRT encouraging CC seems unappealing potentially.<br /><br />Cheers and thanks for the great articles,<br />Edwin McConnelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01730923177410205824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-91883540352994481762019-03-31T18:08:29.485+00:002019-03-31T18:08:29.485+00:00Hi Paul, it seems such a common theme that many of...Hi Paul, it seems such a common theme that many of us played with great excitement up to Cross of Iron and then hit a wall. It's such a shame that the system just pushed on instead of consolidating.<br /><br />Re Last Hundred Yards, it is interesting to see that some modern titles are increasingly breaking away from 'the way' that things have been done for decades under the influence of SL / ASL. Last time I look at the game proposal, I was not keen on the maps (elevations mainly) ..... but new and shinny! :-)<br />Normhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05031444717952755557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-8687061912816096202019-03-30T18:09:38.643+00:002019-03-30T18:09:38.643+00:00Hi Norm,
Congratulations on your 200th post! I st...Hi Norm,<br /><br />Congratulations on your 200th post! I started tactical gaming in the early '80s with Squad Leader and Cross Of Iron, but the rules overhead wore me down as I worked through Crescendo Of Doom. GI: Anvil Of Victory just sat on a shelf untouched! Retro brought me back to playing Squad Leader again. I've also used it to adapt En Pointe Toujours. I'm currently reading the rules for Mike Denson's Last Hundred Yards which also doesn't have an opportunity fire mechanic. I wonder if Gary's hesitation rule will fit with this game. <br /><br />PaulPaul Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14019683230484561058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-16290478395459474572019-03-30T05:50:18.008+00:002019-03-30T05:50:18.008+00:00Thanks Todd, it was a major writing effort because...Thanks Todd, it was a major writing effort because it took a big re-write just a couple of days before Christmas because it was a jumbled mess. Really, there should be a second part that covers another 4 or 5 mainstream systems, I have always intended to do this, but I need some fortitude for that :-).<br /><br />Hatten looks to be a lovely game, certainly a nice and interesting map to game over and of course, like all things ASL, it will go out of print.Normhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05031444717952755557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-68732528700152281302019-03-29T16:23:06.801+00:002019-03-29T16:23:06.801+00:00Holy cow man, what a write up. Impressive.
I str...Holy cow man, what a write up. Impressive. <br /><br />I struggled with Retro because I was having to make and test too many rules. I would rather play out of the “box” when it comes to my board games. <br /><br />That said, there are some ASL packs I would like to play with simpler systems. I’m thinking Pegasus Bridge and Flames in Hatten.Itineranthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05344688763064409885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-69744309719691207542019-03-27T20:47:34.256+00:002019-03-27T20:47:34.256+00:00Hi Dave, for those that came through the Basic Squ...Hi Dave, for those that came through the Basic Squad Leader ranks all those years ago, I think there is an affection and appreciation of exactly what that game did, that has probably not been realised since by any other game title.<br /><br />It is interesting to note that when Retro came out, the ASL Starter Kits were still a few years away.<br /><br />I can't recall Close Assault, my loss I think, as I was a bit of an 8 Bit computer addict at that time.Normhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05031444717952755557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-80191878194249440122019-03-27T17:30:59.779+00:002019-03-27T17:30:59.779+00:00Hi Norm,
I was a big Squad Leader fan and playe...Hi Norm, <br /><br />I was a big Squad Leader fan and played it a lot back in the 80's with my wargaming buddy. I tried to get into ASL and purchased their rules and several modules but never really enjoyed it, too complex. However then ASLSK's came long and reinvigorated my interest and along with Retro I have enjoyed playing/re-playing any scenario solo, especially those involving the Canadians (I do have all the maps MMP published). <br /><br />Retro is a great variant and with ASLSK's it has brought me back into the world of SL/ASL and made the games simpler and more enjoyable for me.<br /> <br />Thanks for the great write-up as usual which I enjoyed reading.<br /><br />Dave<br /><br />PS Did you ever hear about Avalon Hill's microcomputer war game called "Close Assault", published in 1982. It came with a Squad Leader style board and counters that are easily recognizable in the Squad Leader world. It was infantry combat only (both East & West fronts) and the computer resolved all combat. It has John Hill's fingerprints all over it I believe and it must have been worked on when he was doing Squad Leader (or shortly thereafter).<br /><br />Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05838620751948209784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-12319509151115269392019-03-27T16:32:15.622+00:002019-03-27T16:32:15.622+00:00Thanks Iain, even though it is not your thing, you...Thanks Iain, even though it is not your thing, your visit and comment is always appreciated. :-)Normhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05031444717952755557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-20488567965169671942019-03-27T13:05:36.560+00:002019-03-27T13:05:36.560+00:00Entertaining write up,your obvious enthusiasm kept...Entertaining write up,your obvious enthusiasm kept me interested in spite of it not being anything I'm likely to use!<br />Best Iaincaveadsum1471https://www.blogger.com/profile/02174163740406928172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-33482769787743445142019-03-26T18:26:28.249+00:002019-03-26T18:26:28.249+00:00Thanks Stu, re-visiting was enjoyable and I think ...Thanks Stu, re-visiting was enjoyable and I think worth writing about.Normhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05031444717952755557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-85905521325813912092019-03-26T18:24:02.379+00:002019-03-26T18:24:02.379+00:00Thanks Peter, it just so happens to be my 200th po...Thanks Peter, it just so happens to be my 200th post, so thank you for the thumbs up.Normhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05031444717952755557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-42721884215301851782019-03-26T14:11:48.963+00:002019-03-26T14:11:48.963+00:00Very nice write up of a game system. I wasn’t awar...Very nice write up of a game system. I wasn’t aware of these rules. This will be a valuable resource for anyone wanting to know more. 😀Stewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00340930167419307092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-23091412049827949822019-03-26T08:43:12.832+00:002019-03-26T08:43:12.832+00:00While I don't play Retro this was still a real...While I don't play Retro this was still a really enjoyable post. The effort you put into your posts makes them most readable.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02918057670249529750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-62543192776490927352019-03-26T08:09:05.598+00:002019-03-26T08:09:05.598+00:00Thanks Ellis, we have been exposed to several new ...Thanks Ellis, we have been exposed to several new systems since 2001, but Retro at the very least still has to be thought of as clever and is well worth a familiarisation. It may well then go back on the shelf for the reasons that it did so 'last time', but the pleasure from a re-visit is tangible.Normhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05031444717952755557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-23887622157953306902019-03-26T06:42:36.189+00:002019-03-26T06:42:36.189+00:00Great post. Over the years, I have dabbled with Re...Great post. Over the years, I have dabbled with Retro but never really got into it. Maybe I need to try again.Ellis Simpsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11824084848258716512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-6296102172893462452019-03-26T05:19:18.680+00:002019-03-26T05:19:18.680+00:00Hi Jonathan, I wonder whether the commercial figur...Hi Jonathan, I wonder whether the commercial figure rules you are thinking of are Crossfire? I know in that you keep moving until an enemy can stop you. <br /><br />The system / hesitation rule fascinates me as a mechanic, especially as it just seems to be counter-intuitive to how we have come to expect tactical games to work, likely due to our Squad Leader heritage. I think some gamers will simply not be able to surrender to the notion of moving in front of enemy guns without taking fire or having to take further Hesitation Test that turn.<br /><br />I suppose in some respects it is like the Combat Commander / Great War Commander boardgame series in which you can only fire at an enemy if you hold a Fire card in your hand, which can also lead to units moving unmolested in front of enemy guns, not everyone likes that loss of unit management.<br /><br />When the rules were published as 2nd Edition in 2001, I was big advocate of them on my old website (no blog in those days) and used them extensively with various systems to various effects. Interestingly, if you can get into your stride and adapt them to several systems, you end up with a fairly consistent playing system (Retro) over those systems and even a generic 'host' set of rules can start to form i.e. you might use the Line of Sight rules from one system and apply them to all game systems and playing often means that essentially a fully filled out Retro becomes what you are always playing.Normhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05031444717952755557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-2357174630916555422019-03-26T05:05:41.848+00:002019-03-26T05:05:41.848+00:00Hi Jay, a recent re-familiarisation with Retro has...Hi Jay, a recent re-familiarisation with Retro has been a pleasure for me, especially in remembering to appreciate such a clever design, I know that you will feel the same. Normhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05031444717952755557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-37213583423623659592019-03-25T23:08:41.375+00:002019-03-25T23:08:41.375+00:00Norm, this is the first I have heard of Retro. Th...Norm, this is the first I have heard of Retro. The Hesitation process sounds brilliant to me and represents a good example of the design for effect School of Thought. The active player is exposed to fire throughout his movement and the player is taking a snapshot in time to determine if this incoming fire is disruptive enough to keep his unit from carrying out its movement. Assuming the enemy units are doing their job, is this incoming fire enough to suppress the active player from continuing? Pass this test and incoming fire has been ineffective in stopping the movement. Fail and enemy fire has suppressed the moving unit and halted his advance.<br /><br />I have seen at least one other miniatures' rules that had a similar mechanism. Rather than defensive fire, the attacker tested to see what the effect of any potential incoming fire might have on his unit. I forget the rules but it turned the Turn Sequence on its head and opened my mind to alternative processes and approaches. This does the same.<br /><br />Have you used something to Hesitation before? Jonathan Freitaghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07862373894196924886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5368677310334370714.post-40885253609437583472019-03-25T20:27:57.119+00:002019-03-25T20:27:57.119+00:00Hi Norm,
Great analysis of this excellent rules v...Hi Norm,<br /><br />Great analysis of this excellent rules version. I'll now be carrying this around with me on my commute! Thanks for reminding me!<br /><br />Cheers<br /><br />JayOld Trousershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866101372406631079noreply@blogger.com