I recently mentioned doing an experiment with Pendraken 10mm figures, with the core design principle being a fast assembly of forces with very minimal time spent with a paint brush. This would be about getting a functional army to the table quickly. It needed a break of mindset of always feeling compelled to paint the detail that is on the figure.
I recently abandoned a couple of the Warlord Games’ Epic projects, being over faced with a painting challenge and never seemingly being able to adjust my painting technique to the three foot rule that I think the benefits the scale, plus over time I became less of a fan of the formulaic look of ranked infantry, with each figure merging into the next - so time for a re-think.
I like the idea of the figures being based very close together, but remaining individual and then painting after basing. For speed, just undercoat in black, dry brush white and pick out highlights that the paint brush could reach, which would mostly default to the front of the front rank and the rear of the rear rank getting more attention that those hard to reach places between the ranks.
I am reminded of how many years ago I was buying ready 4 ranked bases in 6mm from Irregular Miniatures and that is exactly how you had to paint them.
Just to try this out, I ordered a packet of line infantry, one of line command, one of dragoons, one of artillery and a senior command pack. The intention was to use one pack per unit.
Per pack, Pendraken give you 30 infantry, 15 cavalry or 3 guns with crew.
So, firstly, how to base? this has been my most pressing question. In the end I just pinched my nose and jumped in, but already I am having second thoughts on the Infantry basing.
For infantry, there are 3 bases per unit on 40mm x 20mm plastic bases (Kallistra). For line, this gives a frontage of 120mm with 36 figures. Because this exceeds the pack size, I have had to create two command based (flagged) from my stash, but one of these bases will be installed in a second unit if I press on with this project.
The three bases behind each other give a good impression of an assault column, with plenty of heads in there (36). What it doesn’t do well is march column or form the ideal square, but I can get around this with markers.
Why am I having second thoughts - perhaps just two bases at 50mm frontage each might help with table constraints and going for the ‘small game’, giving a unit frontage of 100mm and being a better fit with what I have done with the cavalry and artillery. Also IF I decide to go with Kallistra hexes again, the 100mm frontage will at least fit their hex.
For the artillery, the 3 models and 12 crew in a pack, works well to give a sense of a deployed battery. These are on an 80mm x 40mm base. The black priming while based works okay with a rattle can, but is best done with two light coats to better catch the undercuts.
Note the cannon on the left has lost its barrel in action! I can’t find it anywhere, so I have replaced it with a piece of cocktail stick sanded down. I doubt anyone will notice once painted and I won’t tell if you don’t!
Cavalry - I like the look of single big cavalry bases. This will count as a single unit, regiments in big games and perhaps squadrons in skirmish level games. The 14 models here are on an 80mm x 60mm base. They are ranked in straight lines and I wish now that I had done them just slightly less formed, to give a sense of motion.
Command stand - These are on a 40mm round base, which I now feel is a tad too big, but I will treat them as army or corps commanders, so their status befits the bigger base!
Painting
To stop me doing detail, rather than painting on sticks, I mounted the figures on their bases and then primed with a black rattle can. The infantry were dry brushed twice to accentuate the white. After that I just dabbed with the paintbrush onto the accessible parts of the figures.
These are Napoleonic Austrian infantry, so they have white tunics and trousers, black boots and helmets and then yellow to the sides of the helmet crest. Muskets are brown with steel bayonets attached and exposed skin is limited to hands and face. Backpacks are brown with a grey roll on top.
All the worrying things like belts, straps, buttons, water bottles, bayonet scabbards, collar colours and other trim etc etc either can be ignored.
Pretty much everywhere the colours have been suggested rather than carefully detailed. An example being the yellow sides to the helmet crest. This was slapped on and then a black stripe was placed over the very top of the comb and each helmet got a ‘dab’ of black to its sides, by the end of that process, there was still enough yellow showing to give the right impression.
What surprised me was that I completed the three base paint job in 1 hour and 15 minutes. The prep, priming, varnish and ground paste are what they are, but 1:15 for a unit for the painting bit, I thought was very good. My Epic were taking around 5 hours and my 28’s for 20 figures are generally takin 13 - 15 hours!
So - with the three foot rule, I am thinking these will be fine. My worry will be getting the cavalry to look good enough, with ‘rough’ painting and trying not to have too much primer left exposed, but I’m sure they will be fine.
What next?
I don’t know really. Initially this is an experiment for me just to see if it has the basis of something that I want to take forward. I just can’t decide whether this is something I want to pursue. On the same painting tray are 9 x 28mm Austrian Jäger for skirmish stands and they look so nice and I just want to finish them and perhaps that tells its own tale.
In the short term, I could move this to a Neil Thomas style army, so just 3 more infantry units would give a 6 unit army for his one hour battle scenarios and then make an opposing army. After that, doing double of everything would give a couple of handy pocket armies.
I might just order the figures needed to make up those bases, prime them and use them as they are, while I get a feel for them on the table and can then paint them over time, as it seems that a single unit could be painted in a single session.
Resources;
Pendraken website. LINK
I have another bit of web space (COMMANDERS) that is a bit more magaziney than here and is likely where the small updates on the project will appear. LINK
https://commanders.simdif.com/dear_diary.html







They look great Norm, the time taken compared with the Epic and 28mm stuff is a massive difference for getting them done and on the table. I will be really interested with what you do with them, whether you go with them or go back to 28mm.
ReplyDeleteThanks Donnie, I was REALLY surprised when they came in at just 1 hour 15. In some ways one might think the Epic are easier paint because you just go along the row dabbing and I do know of some painters doing it much faster than I was doing. I think pre-basing these so that some places were hard to reach with the brush has helped force me to give up that detail.
DeleteThese look nice. Using the three foot rule I'm sure they will work out well. Using your listed time, to paint a pair of full armies for a Neil Thomas force would only take you about the time you could field 2 units of 28mm figures. That seems like a good way to get a feel for them without committing a lot of your hobby time.
ReplyDeleteThanks, I agree, the investment in just exploring to the Neil Thomas level is not going to be too onerous and then regardless, i have those forces for any time that I need to scratch that itch, without any associated hassle of storage issues.
ReplyDeleteThose look great Norm! Now you have got me thinking 6mm if I do another project as I do not have room to store another 28mm one.
ReplyDeleteThanks Phil, I think now, this would be the only way that I could realistically do all of the armies that are in my head!
DeleteDecisions, decisions, decisions! I like the three base infantry unit and went down that path for my 10mm ACW armies. Fitting into your existing hexes and onto your table are important too. In some of my projects that are destined for hex play, I allow a unit to span two hexes.
ReplyDeleteHi Jon, after further gazing into space, I feel that the current 3 bases does hold the prospect that it looks very much like a line and that is likely enough to swing it.
DeleteBasing is an age old problem isn’t it. I never get it quite right. Your 3 ft rule paint jobs look excellent but try as I might I just can’t bring myself to do it. Well that’s not entirely true, I did make up a stand of 6mm ECW musketeers one time in the undercoat, highlight and dabs fashion but the result was so poor I just threw them away in disgust. If I could’ve got the same results as you I’d have persevered I reckon. Probably a good way to try out a new period with minimum time and expense cost.
ReplyDeleteHi JB, I think for basing, I should just go with the system I like least as that is where I am likely to end up after one or two re-basing changes! :-).
ReplyDeleteI did try painting without my glasses on once, hoping for an impressionistic look and a reduction in going for detail, but when I put my glasses back on ….. I was horrified! I think it will be doing the cavalry that might decide this for me.
My horse and musket are based in units of two or four base. Two bases is the minimum to do line, attack column and square (back to back) while march columns I put them end--end. I often end up just using three bases from my 4 base units, with the flag in the middle though.
ReplyDeleteHi Martin, I have done end to end to allow units to fit on a bridge while crossing. For march column I think I will put a generic horse mounted figure at the front of the unit. I do like the flag being in the centre, but being ‘near’ the centre is good enough when I have to.
ReplyDeleteThe good thing about 4 base units is that if you want to do a big action that would put the collection under pressure, you can drop down to 2 or 3 base units, giving the headroom to increase the number of available units.
The figures look great! I have a few Pendraken and they are very nice castings but I still find I'm painting too much detail. I think that the old Heroics & Ros 6mm are a good choice if you want to build an army fast using individual figures - just an idea!
ReplyDeleteHi Ian, yes the Pendraken do have a good amount of undercuts, very obvious after the first pass of primer, so the older H&R would be kinder to paint …. I seem to remember weak ankles on the H&R that I used to own!
DeleteBeautiful work Norm!
ReplyDeleteThanks Michael, they actually turned out better than my input deserved.
DeleteThat works perfectly well. Detail is the enemy of done ,
ReplyDeleteHi David, it is indeed …. Made me smile.
ReplyDeleteYour experiment seems to have worked for the overall look of the units, time to complete, and refraining from doing too much detail in the painting process. Basing is a tricky one, the tabletop size you plan to play on can have an influence. Especially if you are trying to reduce the size for convenience and ease of setup.
ReplyDeleteHi Peter, I think so. I am happy with the artillery and cavalry look, so the infantry can fall from that. This is really all about smaller games rather than having lots of battalions, so I don’t want to get drawn in that direction.
DeleteA great result Norm for the effort put in. You are much quicker than me!
ReplyDeleteGood luck with the cavalry. I think it is a worthwhile experiment as the time and financial investment is limited for each army (maybe 10-11 hours and £80) and they are easy to store.
Hi Ben, those are the sums that are in the back of my mind. The production speed is purely down to skipping detail and so there is a compromise cost there.
ReplyDeleteI do think that a good flag like yours does lift them a lot as well. Something I noticed when I started placing flags on my Napoleonic's.
DeleteFlags and faces do a lot of the job I was once told!
DeleteThe infantry look excellent, Norm. 100mm frontage would be my favourite.
ReplyDeleteI wonder whether the painting will slow on cavalry, jagers and artillery due to more of the rear figures being accessible to to the paint brush.
My viewpoint is that miniature painting is all about what you don't need to paint. What you're doing fits the bill nicely. Why paint piping when no one will notice it!
Hi Richard, a good way to view ‘the job’ of painting. I have just read on a forum (re my posting) that when painting based figures, it is useful to ‘wet brush’ them in the predominant colour, which makes sure the paint gets everywhere ….. I immediately thought the cavalry!
DeleteI dont know if anyone here has rebased 10mm Napoleonics more than I have so ill weigh in!
ReplyDeleteFirst off - they look fantastic and I believe they achieve your aim. The detail you intended to pop out has done so magnificently.
I recently rebased all my naps (old glory strips) onto 2" x 1" bases and that has achieved my aims of delivering suitable mass and the ability to make formations. I can get "a little more" army out of them by making units only 2 x bases in a game instead of 3 bases and they still look respectable as little battalions. I will not be rebasing the lads again!
I think what you've done here looks good and I like the pendraken figs on 40x20mm bases - a match made in Heaven if you ask me!
Lastly your thoughts on thr "pocket armies" concept from a previous post was perfect and that has been a great goal to make projects more manageable for me in order to get games on the table!
Steve
Thanks Steve, your 2 bases are coming in at 100mm frontage (as per Richard’s comment above) and I like that idea. The last time I did similar was with Kallistra ACW on 2 x 40mm bases and I felt the line was a tad too short, but that meant pushing things to 3 bases and I ended up with the 120mm.
ReplyDeleteAs an aside 2 x Epic strips are 120mm, with three being 180mm and I feel that starts to take away the benefits of the scale.
As time goes on, I am increasingly feeling that the pocket army and the Neil Thomas approach to rules is a marriage that is more likely to get me to the table versus all other competing demands, including of course a shelf or two of boardgames that are begging to be played.
Your ‘themed’ months are also something that has been in my mind, to get a push behind a couple of those things that never quite make it to the front of the queue.
The themed months give me something to look forward to and get excited about and also prevent burnout for me.
DeleteThey look good, Norm - probably as good as I can do when trying really hard!! Painting 'on the base' is an interesting idea too. I suspect I might have been satisfied with 24 figures for a battalion and 12 for a cavalry unit, not sure how that might translate to bases.
ReplyDelete'Detail is the enemy of Done' is great!
Thanks David, this evening I black primed the artillery / horse / commander bases and they will provide very different base styles to paint, so we shall see whether the painting after basing is a go-er for me. I have just completed some 28mm Jäger, which I may put up tomorrow, so it has been quite interesting painting the 28’s and the 10’s side-by-side.
DeleteWell they've worked really well there Norm and time wise that's damned impressive! I take much more time for effectively the same impact once on the table. As for bottles, scabbards etc, I often go with one basic colour to cover them all as you don't notice them once on the table.
ReplyDeleteAs for the basing, you know my thoughts already, but it seems you are having second thoughts...
I can see why you are drawn to the 28mm figures, as a big part of out hobby is the simple joy of painting toy soldiers. For many reasons 28mm figures no longer have the hold on my that they did some 15+ years ago. 10mm figures just work for me as you well know.
Hi Steve, I was really taken by the painting time, I have never been able to that before. I recently received some commission painted figures and on scrutinising them, it looked like at the end of the painting process, the painter did a very light dry brush dusting, which gave a campaign look, but also seemed to hoover up any raised detail otherwise missed.
ReplyDeleteLast year I decided to keep the 28’s but cut down to two periods, with the idea that I could have a very small lead mountain and paint at a very restrained and leisurely pace, just adding units here and there - good plan, but then I got involved in the Painting Challenge and had to up my game to reach the goal that I had set and now I am talking about speed painting 10mm, I seem to have (too quickly) lost the plan for leisurely painting and really I should get back to that as it is where I would prefer to be.